HouseCraft 4 - Session 1 FINAL-1
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[00:00:43] right, welcome all. [00:00:45] I'm Justin Wolfenberg. This is my wife Shelly. We've got the team operating and serving today. So introduce [00:00:50] them. This is my son. Henry, who's 18, Laila, 16, Adria, [00:00:55] 13, Thomas is 8, and John Daniel is 7. They want to say hi. [00:01:00] Alright, you guys can go sit down, just so you know all the people. Sweet!
[00:01:04] [00:01:05] Alright, well, I'm excited to share with you guys about this journey. I'm not going to tell you my whole back story, but [00:01:10] in case you're wondering, I'm not a good person. I've done lots of bad things. I used to be a drunk. [00:01:15] God save me. Dot, dot, dot, dot. We're going to skip all that tonight, but I don't want to have any illusions [00:01:20] of anything else like that.
[00:01:21] But this journey started for me 15 years [00:01:25] ago. I was taking a story form life. I was sitting in a, uh, at crossroads in [00:01:30] this room, taking a class with Jeremy over here, and we got to this story. We read the story of [00:01:35] Brad in Yitzhak. Uh, and all of a sudden something switched in my head. [00:01:40] And at that point I was doing, we had two kids.
[00:01:43] And I was kind of [00:01:45] doing okay as a dad. I was like that kind of like going to be that servant leader. I was going to be that good dad. [00:01:50] I was going to, you know, stay focused on these things. I would get up in the morning and I would run [00:01:55] Shelley up a cup of coffee. And then I would make breakfast for my two kids individually when they came down [00:02:00] and, and I would often leave work like exhausted, uh, for work [00:02:05] after that morning routine.
[00:02:06] And, uh, I was exposed to this idea that your [00:02:10] family. Could be a team. And I was like, I never thought [00:02:15] about that. I thought my job was just to be a servant leader, which is obviously a good thing to do. I didn't know I could lead my [00:02:20] team, my family, like a team. And so I said, okay, I'm going to, we're going to try and [00:02:25] experiment here.
[00:02:26] And this is what we did. So instead of [00:02:30] me doing all the work, I said, we're going to start doing breakfast together. [00:02:35] And that means we're all going to wake up at the same time, we're all going to make [00:02:40] breakfast as a team, we're going to eat breakfast as a team, and we're going to clean up as a [00:02:45] team. Uh, and I did this, I think we had three or four kids when we started this piece of it.[00:02:50]
[00:02:50] How do you guys think that went? Terrible. Like, I, [00:02:55] we couldn't bump and poke and we couldn't do anything without high [00:03:00] octane problems through that whole chaos. But when I found I was getting in the car and going [00:03:05] to work, I found myself energized. And excited for the one of the first times as a dad [00:03:10] going, wow, I could, I can lead a team.
[00:03:12] And for the last 15 years, [00:03:15] breakfast has been the crucible for us to think about our family [00:03:20] working together as a team. And it's radically changed our lives in so many different ways. [00:03:25] And it's been an incredibly meaningful journey. And that's the heart of what we're going to share tonight. [00:03:30] Uh, But it's not easy.
[00:03:32] This has not come natural or [00:03:35] easy, but I, I, I have first hand seen it can be incredibly fruitful. [00:03:40] But this idea too, one of my other passions is to show these ideas are not new. These are actually [00:03:45] ancient ideas. There is nothing too crazy special about this. [00:03:50] This is the beginning of the story. Just imagine God was getting ready to make the [00:03:55] first family.
[00:03:56] So we're sitting there, he's getting ready to make the first family. He says, then God said, [00:04:00] let us make man in our image, according to our [00:04:05] likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the [00:04:10] air, and over every cattle, over all the earth, over every creeping [00:04:15] thing that creeps on the earth.
[00:04:17] So God makes his first family, [00:04:20] makes husband and wife, and the, what's the crazy, the first thing he does is what to them? [00:04:25] Has them sing worship songs? Has them pray? Has [00:04:30] them, what does he do? He gives them a job. [00:04:35] Can you imagine, that, this concept blew me away, I didn't know, I thought we just had to [00:04:40] argue over like how long this story took.
[00:04:42] I thought that was the whole point of it. I didn't realize there [00:04:45] was like foundational incredible family stuff that could come out of this. And, and this said. [00:04:50] What if this crazy idea that we were created [00:04:55] to work together as a team, what if that was it? [00:05:00] God could have made like Disney World. He could have been like, Oh, come on.
[00:05:03] Let's just go play kids. Get [00:05:05] out. Come on. I want to see you have fun. I want to see the smiles on your face. Let's make this all about joy. The first [00:05:10] thing he shows up, he's like, boom, you got a job. And I, and so if [00:05:15] you guys get one thing out of tonight, okay, one thing. All right. If you [00:05:20] just believe that you were created to work as a team together, and that [00:05:25] is good, that could change everything.
[00:05:27] That's all you need. You need to start with that belief. [00:05:30] And the challenge is we have competing beliefs that [00:05:35] are pushing against us, okay? These competing beliefs is this one. This is [00:05:40] one of the things that's, here's three of 'em I'm gonna throw out there. You have to make it [00:05:45] fun, so they will stick around to your family.
[00:05:47] That's like a belief. It is good to have fun. We have [00:05:50] fun. No one's gonna ever give a teaching on how to have fun because that's what our culture is obsessed with everyone does it [00:05:55] good And but we have this deep desire [00:06:00] in us and our culture is pushing on us so strongly saying It has to be [00:06:05] fun. You have to entertain them non stop.
[00:06:07] And if you don't, they're going to hate you. And they're [00:06:10] going to be, you're going to be in counseling. And they're going to like have all these issues. Your goal is to make [00:06:15] it fun for them. And so that actually puts it really challenging. Here's another [00:06:20] thing I hear, another belief that's out there. It says, my identity is not in my job.[00:06:25]
[00:06:25] Alright. We say these things all the time. And that's actually [00:06:30] not true. Your identity, who you are and what your being [00:06:35] is in the work that you do. It's not your salvation, and yes you can go become a [00:06:40] workaholic and all these bad things, yes you can. But how you're working is part of what makes up [00:06:45] your identity.
[00:06:45] It is so connected to who you are. And we try to like [00:06:50] disassociate from it and say like, Oh, you know, uh, I'm not connected to this [00:06:55] work thing. I'm like, yes you are. You are deeply connected to it. And another one is like, [00:07:00] work is bad. We kind of believe work is bad. Henry, just my oldest, just graduated [00:07:05] from high school and we were in spinning classes to more, uh, this week getting [00:07:10] ready for a class.
[00:07:10] And after the class, everyone's like, Henry, congratulations on. You know, graduating [00:07:15] and they're like, Oh, but now you have to go to work. And they're all like, and I'm like, what? Like, he's [00:07:20] actually excited about going to work. Like we work together. Like it's just part [00:07:25] of our culture. And so you have, we're all, you were all born.
[00:07:28] We're all in this where it's [00:07:30] like, you've got to make it fun. Work is bad. And man, disassociate from that work thing. [00:07:35] And, uh, I think there's a different story here. So yeah, let me ask you [00:07:40] this question. You've got a little kid, little Johnny is your kid picture right [00:07:45] now with me. Like Johnny, I want you to go out and take the trash out.
[00:07:49] Like, [00:07:50] I want you to picture what, what do you feel and believe when you're asking your child to do that? [00:07:55] Just want to give you a second. Like, what do you think? What emotions come up? [00:08:00] What are you believing inside your head? Are you [00:08:05] inviting them into something good? Or you? inconveniencing [00:08:10] them on their lives.
[00:08:12] I think we often feel guilty asking our [00:08:15] kids to do work. We're kind of like, Oh, this is like, Oh, I, I'm so sorry. You were having [00:08:20] like a lot of fun. I want to interrupt your life. We need a job done. I feel guilty about this, but it's [00:08:25] important. And then, you know, so anyways, I want you to be thinking about that as you're [00:08:30] wrestling through this here.
[00:08:32] Alright, is that making sense? Are you guys with me here a little bit? Good. [00:08:35] Alright, this is crazy. Paul says this here, says Paul, says, [00:08:40] For even when we were with you, we commanded you this, If anyone will [00:08:45] not work, neither shall he eat. For we hear [00:08:50] that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are [00:08:55] busybodies.
[00:08:56] Paul did not get this political correctness thing that, you [00:09:00] know, we get stuck up in today. He was like, If you don't work, you are [00:09:05] not welcome to sit at the table, which means like you are not welcome to be a part [00:09:10] of this family. That's a really extreme statement. He had a [00:09:15] really strong belief about contributing.
[00:09:16] Now we can trickle this down into our family and our [00:09:20] kids. And if you have like, I'll pick on a teenager, right? And you're like, [00:09:25] Hey Johnny, we have this opportunity to do this thing today, some work today, you don't want to do [00:09:30] it, would you like to? We're always kind of like afraid of our teenagers because they might like yell at us or [00:09:35] have an attitude or roll their eyes.
[00:09:36] Would you, would you, you know, oh I don't want to. Okay, [00:09:40] well just go and sit in your room and play video games, that's okay. Like, we, we, it's [00:09:45] like, In our household, it's like, you have to earn the right to sit at the [00:09:50] dinner table. And I don't do that like mean, I want them to have [00:09:55] that belief and that satisfaction when they sit down.
[00:09:58] This is why you have to believe it's [00:10:00] good. You're not punishing them when you're asking them to work. You have to believe you're saying, [00:10:05] Oh, I'm inviting you into something good because I have this picture of [00:10:10] you feeling good at the end of the day. If you let a teenager sit around all day [00:10:15] doing nothing, how are they going to feel at the end of the day?
[00:10:18] Bad. They're going to [00:10:20] feel shame. They're going to feel bad. It's like so unloving to let [00:10:25] our kids not contribute to the family. What we're, we're actually hating them. We're [00:10:30] like, I want you. So we have all, like, we have all these issues and not [00:10:35] all of them, but the foundation of putting a kid and giving them purpose will solve a lot of them.
[00:10:39] Not [00:10:40] all of them. But giving a kid some purpose and some issues will do a [00:10:45] lot for them and their self esteem. Okay, so this is [00:10:50] Adriel. I'll give you some examples. Uh, we've had chickens at our home, and each of our kids, when they were in the [00:10:55] younger ages, had to take a winter doing the chickens. Rain or [00:11:00] shine, cold, no matter what.
[00:11:02] It is like, We wanted them to have [00:11:05] that character building experience where they can get up and go and and let me do you think it [00:11:10] went perfectly? Okay, there's no fantasies. No, I've had kids [00:11:15] here and you know, so I would say something like Adria So we're gonna do this. I don't want to do it today. It's [00:11:20] freezing out.
[00:11:20] You're going to do it so you can do it Uh, you know, after this consequence, [00:11:25] or you can do it before, your choice, but you're going to do it. So [00:11:30] let's just decide how much pain you want to have before the job is done, okay? And [00:11:35] so, they have had this, and it takes about three weeks of whining, gnashing their teeth, [00:11:40] and doing, and all of a sudden something flips in the middle of the winter when they know they can't negotiate with me.
[00:11:44] [00:11:45] It's gonna go nowhere. And all of a sudden something flips in their head, and they're like, Okay, they just get [00:11:50] up, put their coat on, get out. Are they happy? No, but it's good. And they develop [00:11:55] that character that pushes them in there. All right. [00:12:00] One other thing, if you have grandparents, this applies as well.
[00:12:03] This is my dad. [00:12:05] Uh, this is one of, uh, One of my favorite stories, he called me one year. He's like, what presents should we get [00:12:10] your kids? You know, Henry for his Christmas. And I'm like, dad, we don't need, we have six kids. If you buy us [00:12:15] presents and everyone does, we have to have an addition for presents.
[00:12:17] Like we don't want any presents, you know? And, [00:12:20] uh, but I said, what if you did something with him? And so the first year they just [00:12:25] bought presents because they didn't have the time to shift. The next year he called me. He said, I have [00:12:30] this idea. I want to build. a go kart with Henry and that be his [00:12:35] Christmas present.
[00:12:35] And I was like, yes, that's it. So this [00:12:40] caused all this time he had to come in and visit Extra and they built this go kart together and [00:12:45] they had this incredible experience, uh, working together. on [00:12:50] something. It was far more than a Christmas present, which 99 percent of them, two weeks later, they have [00:12:55] no idea what it was.
[00:12:55] Henry will never forget this, right? And it turned into a lot of fun where they [00:13:00] would drive around the neighborhood. We only, he only got escorted home by the police once. So, [00:13:05] uh, it's unnerving when he's driving down the street and the lights are flashing afterwards. You know, I was like, [00:13:10] Oh my goodness. You know, so, you know, it turned out to be a lot of fun.
[00:13:13] And then. It [00:13:15] unfolded. This is, that's the beauty of these things. It unfolded that when we started to think about [00:13:20] working together, Shelly took, uh, wrote a letter to her parents and said, we'd like to [00:13:25] invite you to this mission trip. Cause they, we knew this would work with them. And we said, it's [00:13:30] at our house.
[00:13:30] And there's a bunch of orphans cause we've done foster care adoption. There's a bunch of orphans there. [00:13:35] Will you come and spend a week and work at this mission trip? And they're like, yes, you [00:13:40] know, and they came and that shifted for all the way we did family was you go and you [00:13:45] hang out and it was fun. It was great.
[00:13:46] It was fine. But now they come and they work alongside us [00:13:50] in our family and they would tell you they wouldn't want it any other way. Right? The joy and the [00:13:55] richness you have when you get to work together so you can invite your parents into this thing. [00:14:00] And, uh, It's, it kept going with my dad after he got a taste for this, he [00:14:05] caught a vision for working together and he came to us and said, I want to build this [00:14:10] cabin to leave a generational legacy, you know?
[00:14:13] And I was like, what? [00:14:15] Yes. Tell me how and when we can show up and be a part of it, you know? So we took baby [00:14:20] steps. You have to start with baby steps and things started to change in our family. And [00:14:25] this value has continued for the last 15 years. And this was the most life changing experience our [00:14:30] family has.
[00:14:30] Ever, ever had, you know, my dad was nearing 80 years old and he worked [00:14:35] every day with us. He would be the last guy on the job site sweeping with the broom. He instilled character and [00:14:40] work ethic in our kids, in our family. It was incredible. I wish I could tell more [00:14:45] stories about that guy. So you want to ask yourself, do you want your [00:14:50] kids to be a liability?
[00:14:54] [00:14:55] What if you were, like, thinking about what do you like more, blessings or [00:15:00] liabilities? In all sincerity, right? If your kids are constantly [00:15:05] sucking resources from you, they are liabilities. And they are when they're babies, [00:15:10] and that's very appropriate. Okay? But at some point, there should be a transition [00:15:15] where they start to become liabilities.
[00:15:17] a blessing to you. Because guess [00:15:20] what? You are going to like a blessing more than you are a liability. You just are. You want to love [00:15:25] your kids? Train them to be a blessing to you and your family. [00:15:30] Okay? All right. This has been neat. We've been doing this for a long time. If you know [00:15:35] the Erickson family, I believe in this so strongly that I run my business this way.
[00:15:39] So [00:15:40] this is the Erickson family. They're turning this barn Into an Airbnb and they hired our [00:15:45] family to do the construction and my crew to help them and I bill them time and [00:15:50] materials and I tell them that You can work on the [00:15:55] crew, and the more your family works on the crew, the more money you save. [00:16:00] So they have their kids motivated every day on this project to work.
[00:16:04] Because [00:16:05] every time they carry up a 2x4, it saves their family money. So all their [00:16:10] kids are working on this thing, and I, at the end of the day, I go up to mom and dad, and I say, I go up to Michael and [00:16:15] Kaylee, I say, your kids saved you about a hundred bucks today. And they're like, sweet, you [00:16:20] know, they're like, I like my kids like that.
[00:16:22] I mean, they love their kids, but that makes you [00:16:25] happy, you know, it's good. And so there's just a fostering of a [00:16:30] beautiness in this. And I love watching this in other families. It's [00:16:35] not a special thing. It's happening all over the city and other places. People are going, work is good. [00:16:40] Alright, this, it's actually okay.
[00:16:43] I'm going to say something that might be controversial in [00:16:45] this culture. It's okay to make your kids do something. It's okay to make them work. [00:16:50] I think we're so afraid. We are, we are over concerned. counseled as a culture right now. [00:16:55] And so we are definitely afraid of making our kids do something because they might hate us.
[00:16:59] [00:17:00] Right. And you gotta be careful with this and you can abuse them and all the caveats that are appropriate. But this is [00:17:05] Owen. I run a construction crew and this, his mom came to me a couple of [00:17:10] years ago and said, I want Owen to do this. He's kind of like one of those doesn't know what he wants to do with his kid life, [00:17:15] a little fragile.
[00:17:16] Uh, I want him to do this. I'm gonna make him do this. And I was like, he [00:17:20] makes me a little nervous. I don't want a kid on a construction crew doesn't want to do this. And I said, I'll give it a try. [00:17:25] The first day he was on the job, uh, we were building a shed and he, [00:17:30] and I hear from the other side of the shed, I'm bleeding, I'm bleeding.
[00:17:33] And so I'm like, Oh no, man, my crew [00:17:35] never talks like that. If they're that someone's lost a finger or something bad. So I run over and he has like a [00:17:40] slight paper cut on his finger. I'm like, I'm like, okay, deep breath. [00:17:45] Everybody's fine. And I, you know, so we work with him for. For, I think he worked with me for a year and a half, [00:17:50] two years, okay?
[00:17:51] And when he graduated high school, he found a passion [00:17:55] and a purpose to become an electrician. He's now working with a [00:18:00] commercial electrician company, being an apprentice. Sent me a long message saying, this [00:18:05] thing changed my life. I'm not this weak, fragile kid. I have a purpose. I [00:18:10] have a mission. I want to start a business.
[00:18:12] All that changed because his mom made him do something, [00:18:15] okay? And so when we're talking with our kids, we've got to be led by the spirit, working with our [00:18:20] spouse on these kind of decisions. But it is okay to make them do something. They don't know [00:18:25] everything they should know at the age that they are at.
[00:18:28] Uh, you could be withholding [00:18:30] a life changing experience for them. Especially if they don't know what they want to do. [00:18:35] You know, I had this friend of mine I run with this guy and his son was 16 years old and he's like I can't find [00:18:40] a job I'm not going to do the work and his dad found him a job like working behind like a garbage truck.[00:18:45]
[00:18:45] That kid never had a problem after that summer working because his dad was like i'll solve the problem [00:18:50] for you If you won't solve it for yourself Okay. Yes. [00:18:55] Yes. All right. Next question. Is the goal to make [00:19:00] disciples or to get the job done? [00:19:05] Most of you in this room, I'm guessing are the hard drivers, work hap, right?
[00:19:09] [00:19:10] Is the goal to make disciples or get the job? [00:19:15] And if you start thinking, can you do things faster when you're younger, [00:19:20] when their kids are real younger, get them out of the room, put a TV in front of them, get the job done. [00:19:25] You can, okay? But, you, if the goal is to [00:19:30] make a disciple or to someone who can do something, that's going to take a bigger investment up front, [00:19:35] but will reap way, way higher rewards in the long run.[00:19:40]
[00:19:41] Alright, so here's an example of this. This is Henry, I [00:19:45] don't know how old he was, 6, 7 years old on his first roof job. Okay, he wasn't that helpful on [00:19:50] this job, maybe minorly helpful. This, he's over here with Sam, helping build his family cabin, [00:19:55] maybe 11, 12 years old, learning how to do a roof. Helpful at this point.[00:20:00]
[00:20:00] This was last week. Uh, We, as a family, [00:20:05] we have a big rental property and I got some bids on it. It was about 35, 40, 000 to [00:20:10] do this roof. Okay. I'm going to give you numbers just so you can see what a blessing can be. We [00:20:15] were able to do it with my family and my crew. for around 10, 000. [00:20:20] So, my kids helped save 20, [00:20:25] 000 and they got paid for it well.
[00:20:26] They did great in the job. That [00:20:30] is like long term thinking that now the rewards are starting to come in [00:20:35] for our family. And there's my daughter, Layla. Just in case you're [00:20:40] wondering, she doesn't want to be a roofer. She doesn't particularly enjoy it. [00:20:45] Uh, but she had to step in because our family needed, we needed her to do [00:20:50] that.
[00:20:50] And I feel like one day, God willing, she'll be married. [00:20:55] And I feel really good about these experiences because I'm going to collect a good dowry from [00:21:00] her because she can, she can get things done, you know, and she's got this [00:21:05] character that she can do something she doesn't want to do. Like I'm so nervous, like we [00:21:10] take our kids and we make them like, we'll get you your personal coach for this and we'll find all your passions and interests and then [00:21:15] you get to go to all these fun camps and then you do all these things and those things are great to do.
[00:21:19] Not, [00:21:20] uh, not posting them, but they need to have some experience where they're doing something they really [00:21:25] don't want to do and they don't like doing. Because that's where character is developed. It's fun to [00:21:30] do your passion stuff, it's fun to go to camps, all that's fun, fun, fun. They need to spend a [00:21:35] summer, I'm making up a number, it doesn't have to be a summer, spend a summer doing something they [00:21:40] don't like to do.
[00:21:40] You know, because that is where character is developed and then [00:21:45] as they get older, then you get your personal coaches and you're all your training and your, your giftings and you go [00:21:50] with that foundation of character laid there before. So [00:21:55] my goal is there. All right, that's Shelly. You want to say anything on this part?
[00:21:59] Sure. [00:22:00] Um, so I was just thinking as Justin was talking back in one of his [00:22:05] first slides, he said, I want to say something about how, you know, one [00:22:10] philosophy of parenting is that you create all these really fun experiences, uh, and [00:22:15] go to Disney Land and whatever, so that your kids will stay. Well, [00:22:20] what, what we're doing here, or attempting to do, is create all these [00:22:25] meaningful experiences, and are hoping and expecting that they [00:22:30] stay.
[00:22:30] Um, so it's not, You know, there's lots of fun mixed in there, too. [00:22:35] But it's not just, uh, teaching them to work hard and have a good work [00:22:40] ethic. It's meaningful. Um, and I was also thinking [00:22:45] about how, especially in the Old Testament, every time the word fruit is [00:22:50] used, like, blessing is mixed in there, too. And I may be making all this up.
[00:22:54] But, [00:22:55] um, So, you know, and that fruitfulness is often talking about expanding the [00:23:00] kingdom, or adding children. But there's also, or just, like, [00:23:05] being fruitful so that you have food to put on your table. But I think there's also something [00:23:10] inherently, like, good. And, uh, it's a [00:23:15] blessing. to be fruitful, you know, not just for survival's sake.
[00:23:17] And we're giving them, um, [00:23:20] or it's trying to give them that experience. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Yeah. And [00:23:25] the story that kind of highlights that is if you can invite them into a team, [00:23:30] what's the greatest thing when the team wins something or contributes something? Isn't that such like, [00:23:35] Such a powerful feeling.
[00:23:37] When Henry was 8 years old, [00:23:40] we pulled him out of school. This is not, don't, don't get distracted by my extreme [00:23:45] ideas, okay? Uh, and I'm, I'm all sincere about like, go with the [00:23:50] principles, okay? This is not, I'm not saying to do this, okay? This is something we did for us and it was led by God. [00:23:55] We pulled him out of school and he came to work with us, came to work with me in construction full time.[00:24:00]
[00:24:00] And, uh, when he did that, I put him on the team, and he, [00:24:05] and he had to contribute. It wasn't even an option for him not to. I've often liked [00:24:10] the, the analogy, if you were on a pioneering trail, and you had to have your [00:24:15] kids behave, right? You would do it. Like, you would figure it out [00:24:20] if your life depended on it, right?
[00:24:21] Like, how many of you guys don't let, make it optional for your kids to have [00:24:25] seatbelts? Some, some of you do? Oh, wow. Okay, interesting. [00:24:30] Yeah, so we won't report you to child services, but most of us are kind of like, we [00:24:35] figure it out if they want to wear it. You figure it out because their life could [00:24:40] depend on it, right?
[00:24:40] You figure it out and they think about this. And so when Henry came to work [00:24:45] with me, like one of the weeks we came home on a Monday, we're walking home to work because it was close by [00:24:50] our house. He said, Dad, Did I make a difference today? And I [00:24:55] said, yes you did. And he asked me that question every day that week until Friday we were [00:25:00] sitting down, a lot of you were here last week at our Shabbat meal.
[00:25:02] And he said, did I make a difference today? And tears [00:25:05] started coming to my eyes. And I knew God was just teaching me something in that moment. Like, he [00:25:10] wanted, that's like the cry of his heart. Is to make a difference on a team. [00:25:15] And that's, that's the cry of the hearts of our kids. They want to contribute and be a part [00:25:20] of that.
[00:25:20] And you're inviting them into a story. If you want them to stick around in your story and your family and your [00:25:25] faith, invite them into a story where they actually matter. Like that's so [00:25:30] fun to go to a place where you can contribute something and have value to it.
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