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[00:00:00] And I would crumble under that kind of pressure as a young mom, because. I remember hearing a missionary come talk to us one time and he was saying you should see the moms in Africa. They wake up at 3 a. m. so that they can pray for two hours before their kids wake up. And I'm just sitting there like exhausted and like, Oh my gosh, is that what I'm supposed to be doing?
And I'm not doing it and I don't have the energy for that. Does that make me a bad Christian and you know, all those things.
[00:01:00]
Hey everybody, welcome to the 1000 Houses podcast and I also think this episode is going to be another bonus episode for the Life on Life, uh, discipleship course, um, because this is a topic that's constantly coming up. We're going to talk about five tips for disciple making in a season with littles. So what do you do when you are a mom or dad, we're going to especially be talking about moms, but this will apply to dads too, that are in a season of littles and that are Trying to figure out, is this really realistic?
Is this sustainable? Is this a good idea? Um, and [00:02:00] you know, we think it is, but it's, you have to be very thoughtful about how to do this. We're going to get guys five tips. For how to do this. But right now, April and I are in the gorgeous, uh, town village of Langley, Washington at, um, a little cottage, uh, right outside of Langley.
And this is pretty cute. What do you think of this place, April? Oh, I think it's amazing. It is like a garden city for sure. Every sidewalk, every pot has so much. Something gorgeous growing out of it and it's kind of eclectic and just everything here is so green and so beautiful. It's really pretty. We come back here to get inklings of the garden city of the future, um, the Mount Zion, um, where everything will be this incredibly, uh, integrated, uh, nature and humanity, um, that you see in the book of revelation.
So, yeah, this is a fun little taste. [00:03:00] Um, so we'd like to come here once a year in August while our kids are At a camp that's like three miles away. Um, and oftentimes we're there as well serving, but we just, we give you two getaways here and it's awesome. So yeah, I did to bring y'all along with us, um, here.
And this is one of my favorite little maps. Oh my gosh. When we get one of these to Hong Kong, it's the Puget Sound and San Juan islands. Such a cool spot. So, but yes, back to, uh, five tips for disciple making in a season with littles. So a big thing that we're constantly trying to understand is the balance between, um, when you're trying to be family on mission, um, there's always a temptation to be family as mission, but we have to admit you guys, and we certainly did this.
As our families were young, that there are seasons where you do need to really prioritize family. If you're ever going to be family on mission, you gotta, you gotta get your family in a good spot. Right. So, um, so it's challenging to figure out, okay, what is. When does it [00:04:00] cross the line and become family as mission, right?
So that's, that's the thing we want to be aware of that we're always trying to navigate that line and that, that, you know, it's not, it's not like we can tell you guys exactly where that line is, right? So, um, but we can give you guys some principles that might help guide you. For how to be careful that the dial doesn't go all the way down to zero.
Right. Um, so that's a big deal. And I know April, you've thought about that. And as you've talked to the ladies you've discipled, what have you seen stir up in terms of how they think about this tension? Well, I think there's this, um, the, this tension, the tension that, erupts for a young Christian mom is I feel so, you know, either overwhelmed or just really, I've got to stay focused on my kids.
I'm really treading water, but I also feel this guilt about, um, how To, you know, I don't know if we use the term making disciples, but like do a ministry or be involved in [00:05:00] something outside of the family and how, depending on what your background is and what level of ministry you're used to being involved in, it gets really tricky as a young mom to know where to draw the line.
And I know I just would crumble under that kind of pressure because as a young mom, because. I remember hearing a missionary come talk to us one time and he was saying like, you should see the moms in Africa. They wake up at 3 a. m. so that they can pray for two hours before their kids wake up. And I'm just sitting there like exhausted and like, Oh my gosh, is that what I'm supposed to be doing?
And I'm not doing it and I don't have the energy for that. Does that make me a bad Christian and you know, all those things. And so I know that, um, I would just kind of really. resist or get really almost like jaded by those kinds of comments. And it made me resist the idea of discipling because I [00:06:00] felt like I could never measure up to what the women in Africa do.
Yes. Yeah. And it's interesting. Yeah. Cultures are very different and what's expected and what, what, uh, resources that every culture has, it looks very different. And so we're always. Trying to figure out for like a normal, um, Western family with all the pressures of having kids and, um, what, what does it look like?
And so I think that, you know, so we're, we're advocates of this family, um, on mission, um, but we certainly want to be thoughtful about, okay, what are the best ways and what are the, what are the. Typical boundary lines that we might need to be trying to stay inside of in order to make this sustainable and not hurtful for our family.
I think, I think one more thing I want to say before we get into the tips is that, um, I think, I think sometimes when people say I, I, I'm in a season where I'm only discipling my kids, like that's, [00:07:00] that's my goal. That's my only mission during this whole season of next 10, 15, 20 years. Some people say. Um, I think, I think that that mentality that oftentimes people think we're going to be in favor of because we're so convinced that mothers and fathers need to invest so much in their Children have lots of kids.
We always want to champion that. But one of the things that I think is subtle that oftentimes people don't understand when they say I only am discipling my kids. Is our experience has been over and over again in our family and in other families as well that when you choose not to make disciples of anyone outside of your family, you actually are cutting off your Children from being discipled by lots of other people because the best disciple-makers of our Children have all been people that we've discipled.
Um, like our spiritual Children are the best disciple-makers So often, um, of our of our own kids, because your kids are so different than you. And [00:08:00] so oftentimes, when you think that you're going to be able to give your kids everything they need at the spiritual level as a spiritual parent, not just a physical, biological parent, you underestimate how, when you have very different Children, they actually need to see the faith lived out by people that are like them, um, temperamentally, maybe closer to them in age, And, um, and so when you cut off your, when you make a decision, I'm not going to spiritually reproduce for a decade or more, um, it actually, I think, doesn't end up blessing your kids, um, as much as, look, yes, I am discipling my kids, they are apprenticing under me, they see the way I live, it's an incredibly important part of my life.
Job as a mother or father, but I also want to be introducing my kids to other people that, um, feel so passionate about pouring into my kids because they were so impacted and by our generous, um, pouring out our lives into them, even in seasons like this, when we have young children. Um, [00:09:00] so anyway, that's just something to keep in mind.
I think that there's a subtle thing there that we need to be careful of. Also, it's also the example that we are setting for our children. So they are watching us. They are observing. They might not, they don't know. They're not going to understand maybe what we're doing, but they might, they'll remember like, Oh yeah, my mom would have these ladies over or my mom would talk to these or my dad would have these guys over and sit around a fire.
There's this element of them. Observing what you're doing and we're setting an example, whether or not they totally understand what's going on. Like for me, I remember, Oh yeah, my mom was always the one to direct vacation Bible school at my church or, you know, things like that. My dad was always the one that was.
You know, the, the one to lock the doors at the church building or something like that. So whatever we're doing to serve, our kids are like soaking it in almost through osmosis. Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah. You're modeling that. And so they see you modeling having [00:10:00] disciple making at a zero for 10, 15 years, they're probably going to assume that that's normal.
And, and, and so if you can crank that up to a one or two, we'll talk about what that looks like. How to do this in a very sustainable way that doesn't hopefully burn you out. And I think we can, we can try to figure out how to navigate that. Wow. That's, that's a powerful example. And by the way, one of the things I'll just tell you from.
You know, now 20 years of observation that when people refuse to make disciples when their kids are little, oftentimes, I would say, almost without exception, my observation, once their kids, they're free of that obligation, and oftentimes I think of it that way of their children, then they're like, okay, now it's me time so that they actually don't because they've learned to be so insular.
So focused on what they're currently thinking about, that they're just not used to being kind of externally focused at all, they don't suddenly become rabid disciple makers when their kids grow up. Um, um, they've actually learned the pattern [00:11:00] of a more self focused. Way of being and that that actually bears fruit in their later years that, um, and, you know, that's been one of the most surprising, frustrating things to observe personally, um, just friends of mine who were so amazingly ministry focus when they were single.
Then they get, have started having kids and you're like, Oh, I'm just going to spend the next 20 years focused on my kids. And then their kids are now all grown and they could focus externally, but they're like, Nope, not doing that. I'm, this is me time. It's like, Oh no, what happened there? Um, so that's just an observation.
I know we've made. And so don't think you're going to suddenly become a disciple maker. Um, if you aren't willing to put some effort into it in, in microcosm, at least during these more difficult years. All right. So we're going to go through these five. I'll just describe each one and then April would love to get your thoughts on how you've seen this played out.
So the first one is integrating your spouse and kids into [00:12:00] your getaways. So one of the things that we advocate for in the Life on Life Disciplemaking Blueprint is one way to get kind of that rabbinical experience in disciplemaking, if you will. You're, you know, in the dust of your rabbi, or you're actually feeling a life on life apprenticeship in our culture, which is, that's so difficult.
We just so like foreign to us. One way to experience that is actually by doing a getaway, you know, two getaways, a getaway at the beginning and a get at a getaway at the end of your discipleship season with, um, with your, your group. Um, so, um, we've seen that some of these young moms in particular have actually, uh, found ways to integrate their, um, kids into, and their spouse, you know, into this experience.
So, yeah, April, what have you seen there? Um, how does that work? And, yeah, what does, what does that look like? Yeah, I think this can play itself out in a lot of different ways. I think it's important. To allow the people you're discipling to see your everyday [00:13:00] life. And so there's lots of different ways this can look for me.
When my kids were little, um, I would, we didn't have the model yet of the sendoff, um, like retreat, but, um, the idea of like letting someone come and help me fold laundry. That was a very vulnerable thing to do, but it was a way I could like. Come sit by me and do what I normally am doing. And I hope that we'll be able to get to kind of like have a meaningful conversation during that time.
You'll get to see me interact with my kids, how I respond to them. You're around us for a prolonged period of time. So you're seeing interactions, um, that are more realistic, I think also inviting them to dinner, either just a regular dinner or a Shabbat dinner and seeing how your husband, um, Acts at the table and how, like what his role is and how he interacts with the kids can be really eyeopening to a lot of young women.
Um, and then I know that one of the ladies I discipled, um, the way she did her [00:14:00] send off because she is really, you know, in the, she's pregnant and has three kids and like, so everyone's really young is she invited her girls to come with her on a canoe trip. With just a day trip with her husband and kids.
And they did this whole canoe thing as a family. And they got to see the husband, like you'd be a strong, you know, presence in the kids lives and like physically. Able to do things that she couldn't and, um, how appreciative they were of each other and how they worked together as a team. And then, and then the husband took the kids home and then she, um, spent some hours alone with just the, the young ladies that she was going to start discipling.
And so I think there's some really creative ways to do, to be able to do both. And I, the thing I like about that is how, um, much of a team that husband and wife were working on together to do this. Instead of, um, you know, this is her thing. She has to figure it out herself. [00:15:00] So good. Yeah. So we want to, we want to encourage you guys to think about number one, integrating getaways with spouse and kids.
Number two is make disciple making like a four month season of your year. And you know, don't, don't necessarily feel any pressure to do these back to back. Um, you know, it take long breaks, but not forever breaks. So the idea here is, and this is when we talk to our whole community about disciple making, one of the things we say is, look, we want to make really clear what the sort of minimal requirement is to be considered to have obeyed Jesus's commission to go and make disciples.
And for us, we're just telling everyone in our community that looks like, you know, either being discipled or making a disciple, making disciples. In one season, um, every year. And so the next 12 months, four of those months, and that's kind of our minimal, like amount of time to really. Uh, have a, you know, [00:16:00] a profound impact on somebody from discipleship perspective, but, um, you know, make sure that somewhere in this 12 months, four months of the year is spent making disciples.
And so we get everyone's plan every year and we work with them and we coach them and try to help make it as sustainable as possible. So if you're about to have a baby. Um, don't feel any pressure, you know, to make disciples within that season, but over the next 12 months, is there a four month time of, you know, that, that is more, um, realistic and, um, sustainable for you.
So yeah. How have you seen this, this one? Yeah. Um, I think this is such a relieving thing to hear as a mom of young children, I think, because the thing that can feel so overwhelming about making disciples is like this, um, It's ongoing, continuous, never ending, always the way I have to do it. Always this like pressure of like, um, am I doing enough?
Am I doing it right? Am I, you know, and I feel like this really just helps put some definition [00:17:00] around it and allowing it to be a season that repeats itself and is sustainable. And so, um, it's hard to make a commitment when you're in the young years because you don't know if you're going to get pregnant with another baby or if, you know, like, The, the ins and outs of your husband's job, but things like that, that might require something of you.
So if you're able to commit to a four month, maybe five months max, um, time period, then you're, you're kind of saying like, I know that this isn't. I know I can commit to this for this amount of time. I don't know what's going to happen after that, but like, I'm at least going to be able to do this because I'm going to, the baby will be six months by then.
And I can, I know I won't be pregnant again yet. And even if I am, then I still have nine months to, you know, of pregnancy. So, um, I've watched young moms really press into this. It's amazing to watch them like, okay, yeah, the baby, the baby six months or like, Oh, I have, I [00:18:00] have four months before I'm due. With my baby, I'm going to fit in another disciple ship around.
So it's really, um, sweet and precious to watch young moms. Um, start to kind of own this and make it work for their schedule, which we'll talk about in a minute. But I think just the idea of understanding this is a, and let's say this four months I am making disciples, then maybe like the next, when I do this again next year and I start being like, okay, it's time for me to think about discipleship again.
Then I might. feel like I'm in a season of needing to be poured in. So I, in two, so I'm going to look for someone to disciple me in the next round. And so it might be two years between the times you're actually pouring out and think of all the things you're going to be learning in those two years and be able to add to your, um, to your repertoire, so to speak of things that you have to pour into others.[00:19:00]
Yeah, so good. All right, so that was number two. Make disciple making a four month season of the year, not back to back, take long breaks, but not forever breaks. All right, number three, only make disciples of those who are willing and who value a more integrated experience based around your schedule. So it's important to, sometimes when you're making disciples, You are in a position to be very accommodating to other people's schedules, to other people's locations.
I'll come to you. I'll base this around you. April, you do this. a lot when you're discipling young moms, you're really bending things around their schedule, their nap times, all those things. Um, however, when you are the young mom, that doesn't seem like, you know, like that may not be realistic at all. So describe how this works.
Yeah. So I think when you look at the two parties involved, so there's the disciple maker and the disciple Lee, [00:20:00] it's important to look at the seasons that they're each in. And chances are one of them is more flexible than the other. So whoever is more flexible needs to kind of bend around the light. The reality of the life of the less flexible one.
So because I, my kids are older, they are, um, they can feed themselves and I'm not worried about their safety and they can be left alone and all that good stuff. Um, I'm in a much more flexible, I'm not building my life around nap times anymore. So I have a lot more flexibility. So I know that. So when I'm offering discipleship to moms of young children, I know that I can build My schedule around them and I can come to them and their house while their kids are napping.
Um, and when I have them over for like a meeting, my kids are babysitting their kids. That's something I can offer cause that's the season I'm in. But if you are the young mom that is trying to [00:21:00] make disciples, the person that is. probably going to be younger than you and in an earlier season than you needs to flex around your schedule.
So some suggestions slash the way I've seen some young moms do it is they'll, they'll find a time that makes sense where they'll either. So some of them are like super early morning, like 6 00 AM. If you want to be discipled by me, guess what? You're coming to my house by six or six 30. That's when my husband can still be with the kids or the kids aren't up yet or something like that.
And then, um, the disciple Lee is the one that has to kind of be more flexible. And, um, there are like, if you can come to my house during nap time or things like that. So a lot of times you're having to spend your resources or your like, um, I need to get a sitter for my kids because You know, sometimes you need the sitter for the a thing.
I don't think you should get one every single time you're interacting with these women because it's important for them to see what your life is like with your kids. [00:22:00] Um, so there needs to be kind of like a combination, but it does need to flex around you and, um, when it's convenient for you. And so really, Kind of stepping outside of the box and, and looking at your schedule and getting creative, like allowing your husband into that conversation and saying like, what would work for our family?
And also a thing that goes with this is frequency. So maybe I can do that early morning thing. Because I'm only doing it every other week for four months and I'm not doing it like every week or twice a week or something like that. So once a week, I know Tuesday mornings are gonna be my early morning and my husband's gonna help out with the kids.
So, so you think about the frequency. So if you can't do it every week, do it every other week. Even once a month for four months is better than zero. Yes. Yeah. And speaking of, yeah, when your husband can help or your, your wife can help. Number four is support your spouse's disciple making efforts. You are a family team and this is your [00:23:00] family mission, not an individual mission.
So it's important. Like if one of you is the disciple maker, if it's the wife in this case. Then the husband knows, okay, my wife is in a four month intensive season of disciple making. We're basically giving birth spiritually. So, um, as a member of this family team, I'm going to, you know, step up during this season and be comfortable, like constantly figuring out how to make this Worked for my wife.
I'm so proud of her. I'm so glad she's investing in the kingdom in this special way. And so I'm going to be available, make myself really available to, to support her by, by doing, you know, stuff with the littles and doing it in a way that really encourages my wife. And similarly, if the husband's in a season where he's out there making disciples that the wife is like, all right, yeah, this is a four month thing.
It's not going to go on forever. It's going to require, it's going to cost us something as a family. I mean, I definitely, we don't want to communicate that. This is cost free. We do think that the ultimate benefits of this are going to come back and you're going to [00:24:00] experience, um, so many blessings that I do think.
Um, in your own growth and then, and having this, you know, these spiritual children and grandchildren are going to bless your family and your own kids. I think it does end up becoming, um, a net positive, but during the season, it's a, it does, it's a drain. It's, it's challenging. It's hard work. Um, and in a season where you're also raising littles, it's going to feel at times like too much if you don't have each other's back really well in the season.
So have you seen this or have you thought about. This being done well. Yeah. I think that, um, I love the idea of the husband helping the wife by like even casting the vision to the kids, like, okay, mommy's doing this thing and it's super important. And she's like explaining it to whatever level the kids can understand.
And for it to be like a go mommy kind of a thing would be so inspiring as a mom, because you already feel like you're kind of pulling yourself away from your kids. So if you feel like your kids are somewhat, um, [00:25:00] understand. Understanding or being the vision is being cast to them by not just you, but also your husband.
I think that that helps a lot. Um, I think also just the ways that you can support each other with creativity. So if it's a husband discipling, then, um, you know, something that, uh, the idea of like a couple discipling couples could be very interesting with, um, you know, Meeting with them as couples and then separating men and women and all this, like, I think that there is.
possibility of that. So you're maybe both making disciples together and, um, the husbands and wives are hearing the same thing from the disciple makers. It just depends on who God brings you and, um, who's in your network, which I know that's in another part of the life on life courses, um, is how to find the who, but, um, I think that working together as a team for this is another way to make it [00:26:00] sustainable.
Good. All right. The last one, guys, number five, be comfortable only giving what you have. And so things you're thinking about as a young mom or dad. Um, uh, those are the things you want to focus on the things that take very little prep. You don't want to make this a huge project. Um, that not only are you spending time with people, but you're also spending a ton of time preparing for lessons that, um, and so we talk a lot about elsewhere in the life on life, but exactly how to catalog your trainings.
But, but you really want to be careful in this season with littles to, um, to give yourself the total freedom to give those you're discipling and apprenticing, um, things that you, that are really natural to you that are even, that are a big, a big focus point for you in this season of raising, you know, young children.
Yeah. So if you're thinking a lot about certain topics. Those are the kinds of topics you want to be discipling, um, your, uh, apprentices in and, and, and not putting on yourself the additional burden of [00:27:00] saying, I need to be everything for them. I need to come up with these amazing lessons that are things I don't really practice or I'm really wrestling with, but I just want them to give them what they want or what I wish I could give them.
No, no, no. Just give them what you have and let the rest of the body work at discipling Um, them in areas where you are not as strong, like you gotta be really comfortable with, with that in this season. So yeah, April, how have you thought about this one? Yeah, I think the enemy comes after us, just any comes after anyone.
But especially when you're in the season of like building your family, you feel like you're gonna keep figuring stuff out along the way. And so you feel like where you are now might not be worth anything to someone because you're not there yet. Are you, you think you're going to like keep. And, and praise God.
I think hopefully we're going to keep growing till the day we die. Um, keep learning new things. God is big and he's multifaceted and there's so much about him to learn. [00:28:00] So, but I think that, um, if we listen to the enemy, he can really squash us and into thinking that we have nothing to offer and it's, It's very, very important to remember to give God glory for what he's done.
So a lot of the way I think about it is like, I want to, and there are things that he has either gifted me with or shown me or allowed me to experience that can really help me. Minister to other people. It doesn't mean I have everything figured out. It doesn't mean my kids are perfect. My marriage is perfect.
Like not, not any of that. It just means that I have learned a lot about these things and I've seen the goodness of the Lord in these ways. And I want to, you know, share or encourage it with other women. And sometimes it's very practical, like, um, administrative type things. Um, and sometimes it's, it's more, um, like.
What you might call like scriptural or something like where you're talking about how to love your husbands and [00:29:00] what submission looks like in a healthy marriage and things like that. So, um, I think that making sure that you don't, um, buy into the lie that you don't have anything to offer. And at the same time, the lie can tell you that you should offer everything to someone.
So I think if we're living in a kind of like a ecosystem of this idea of like, Discipleship every year, like this, it's this four months for that person, this four months for that person, this four or five months for that person. And we're in this ecosystem where it's always happening around us, whether or not we're the ones doing it.
We're hearing people talk about it. We're hearing what they got to go through in their discipleship relationship. I mean, just imagine how fully, so then someone might be able to say like, Ooh, I do not know how to pray for my kids. And I heard someone say like, the person that discipled them is really good at praying for their kids.
So I would love to get discipled by that person. So allowing, um, each other's giftings to be what pours out helps us be [00:30:00] able to meet each other in the body. Awesome. So good. Yeah. So I think, I think that part of what we want to just encourage you guys with is, you know, one of the things that delaying discipleship does is because disciple making is a compound project where you're making disciples who make disciples.
Um, you might look at, you know, the 10 years your kids are little and say, well, those are the only 10 years I have. And I want to have nothing to do with anything else, but just art my kids. Well, if you think about, you know, let's say you only make three disciples a year in these groups of, during the four months, that's three times ten, that's thirty.
That's not thirty disciples, because disciple making is designed to compound and multiply. It's really thousands of disciples that are going to come out of that, if you're discipling in a way. That you're making disciple makers the way we just need to do in life on life. And so it's really important to understand the amount of power, just in the same way, a financial planner will say, I know it's hard, but when you're [00:31:00] 25 or 30, you probably do need to start saving money because it compounds, if you wait until you're 55 to start saving money, you know, it's, it's going to be a fraction of what other otherwise it could be.
And I think that. I, we really want you guys to experience the fruit of disciple making. Um, and yeah, we'd love for you to ramp up your efforts when your kids are older and you're in our stage of life where you might be able to do, you know, two groups a year instead of one. Um, but it's really important to, uh, to understand that we, yeah, we're, we're, we're on a mission.
We're, we're, we're giving a command. And so the question needs to be not. Whether or not we make disciples, but how to do this in a way that is really maximally sustainable for our family and Is, is, um, is still, uh, effective for the kingdom. Cool. Awesome. Well, hopefully that was helpful with you guys. We want it.
That's a number one of the number one questions we get. So I wanted to cover that, but of course put it on the podcast. So awesome. So thanks for doing this with me, April. And, um, yeah, love to get y'all's feedback. And if you're hearing this and you're like, [00:32:00] whoa, what is this whole life on life thing? Um, we encourage you to go to one cage.
org, sign up for the life on life, uh, coaching intensive. April and I are on there all the time. Coaching via zoom. And we've got a bunch of videos like this that will help walk you through a blueprint for how to make disciples who make disciples. So we'd love to invite you guys to sign up and join us on this amazing, um, journey of learning how to become a disciple maker and be on mission the way Jesus called us to do.
So, um, awesome. Until next time, we'll see you guys. [00:33:00]
