[00:00:00] Jeremy Pryor: There's nothing militaristic about it. It's just so passive and it's fundamentally not what Jesus came to do. He didn't come to start a religion.
[00:00:08] He came to take over the world, Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I am joined by my partners in crime, Brent Krutoff and Joe Freudenberg. All of us hail from the Cincinnati area. Thank you guys for jumping on here today. We're all in the 1KH world trying to figure out how do we make disciples who make disciples through a household.
[00:01:19] And so the way we do that here at 1KH is we introduce people to coaching intensive. I think the most important thing, if you're trying to do something that. isn't currently being taught maybe, um, by your church, but something you guys want to really start doing, uh, you need coaching, you need content. Um, and so we have coaching courses for those who want to launch a outreach, um, um, kind of evangelism through their household.
[00:01:46] It's called made for mission. We have a course on how to do like either a house church or a house group, uh, based around a household, um, which is called a house for community. Um, but our kind of core and where we really like people to start whenever possible. Um, is to get them on the mission of disciples, making disciples, not just making disciples, but making disciple makers.
[00:02:07] Um, so we have a course called life on life. It takes about three or four months. People usually dive into that. And by the time they're done, they are fully equipped, not only to make disciples, but to make disciples who make disciples. So if you guys are interested in that, please go over to one cage. org and sign up for life on life.
[00:02:23] Uh, we'd love to have you in a coaching intensive. Um, and walk you through that. So I wanted to interact with Brent and Joe, Joe around, um, our video in the course called why discipleship. So, um, I kind of lay out the case for discipleship and I wanted to kind of discuss this with, with them and, and have you guys, you Um, come along with us as we try to understand why is, why is it so important?
[00:02:47] Like, why is it so central? Um, so anyway, that's what this, uh, this conversation is all about. So I'm going to play, um, part of the video and then we'll, uh, we'll talk about it. And, uh, the video is about 12 minutes long. I'm not sure if we'll get through all this video, but we're going to play parts of it and then discuss it.
[00:03:03] So here we go.
[00:03:04] I know that any time that I embark on a long journey, that's going to take a lot of effort. I really need to understand why. Okay. I need to, as clearly as I can, be able to articulate why this is so important because that's where so much of the motivation comes from when the going gets tough. So I want us to take some time and just sort of, like, consider, what are the reasons for disciple making?
[00:03:27] Why make disciples and I'm going to count down for you guys for me the top five reasons in reverse order They're gonna we're gonna go from five all the way down to one the number one reason in my opinion why we make disciples I'll go ahead and give these to you guys now and then we're not kind of break them down So number five is disciple making is the best strategy Number four disciple making is an essential part of how people are saved number three Jesus commands us to make disciples You Number two, disciple making is expands the kingdom of God.
[00:03:59] And number one, Jesus is worthy of the obedience of the nations. So let's talk through these. So number five, these are all for me, super valuable reasons. Any one of these reasons I think is reason enough. to give your life to this mission and to believe that it is the crucial mission of the kingdom. But all five of these together for me make such a profound impact.
[00:04:19] So number five, disciple making is the best strategy. So multiplication strategies are simply superior to addition, addition strategies. Um, and that's not hard. That's not a controversial statement, you know, amongst church leaders or people that are in ministry positions. But yet 99 percent of our current efforts, at least in this culture, are designed around addition strategies.
[00:04:41] And the difference is you can actually tell the difference. You can look at a strategy and see, does, is this going to naturally multiply? Is this going to expand? And, you know, if we put. 10 years from now, can we see the exponential impact of this ministry, or is it going to simply create addition over time?
[00:04:58] Um, and so it's really easy just to look at the way something's designed and tell, is it a multiplication strategy in an addition or an addition strategy? And the vast majority of the time, of our efforts in ministry. Like I said, I think at least 99 percent are really clearly addition strategies, not multiplication strategies.
[00:05:14] And so we have to really wrestle with, do we believe that that multiplication strategies are better and discipleship is a multiplication strategy. Um, and so if that's the case, you know, what's going on there, there's, there's a lot of tension that I think we feel around the difference between these two things.
[00:05:29] One really looks amazing. Um, and I think this causes people, um, To actually abandon multiplication strategies, because addition strategies in the short term You actually look really attractive. For example, day of his life when he shares the gospel, he sees a brand new believer coming to come to faith.
[00:05:52] That's 365 new believers every single year. If this evangelists persists in this effort for, let's say 32 years that evangelists will reach 11, 000 people for the kingdom. That's amazing. So one person a year, 32 years, 11, 000. Now imagine a disciple maker. Uh, it says, okay, I'm going to make disciples and I'm going to make two, just two disciples a year that make disciples.
[00:06:20] That's it. Two. So of course, after year number one, Evangelist has 365 new believers in the kingdom and Mr. Disciple Maker has only two new disciples who make disciples. But of course, that's where the addition versus multiplication looks so different. In 32 years, the Disciple Maker. will have made over 5 billion disciples.
[00:06:41] Whereas the evangelist has that 11, 000 people that have come to faith. And so it's not hard once you do the math that they, these sort of exponential strategies are so much more, so much, so much superior to addition strategies. Uh, but the problem is they take time. They go slow at first, they look like they're going nowhere at first.
[00:07:01] And so oftentimes we want to, we gravitate just naturally towards those things that have that bigger, uh, short term impact versus the massive exponential long term impact. And so I always want to go back to Genesis one. God gave us a multiplication strategy to fill the earth. Then addition strategy would not have accomplished the Genesis one mandate, just one 26.
[00:07:25] And so when that was remixed and re given to us in Matthew 28 by Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations, he again gave us a multiplication mandate. And so it's really important to understand that. This, the multiplication strategies are always going to be superior to addition strategies. So we have to, we have to distinguish the two from each other.
[00:07:43] Yeah, I'm going to get your guys take, uh, thoughts on that. So multiplication versus addition, there seems like there's something about wanting to jump into addition strategies that are, that's so attractive. And one of the things that I kept thinking, um, Uh, about with regards to the tension is that even when it comes to having children, like whatever is happening in our culture to make disciple making really rare, seems like it's not just impacting discipleship, but it's affecting even families like we're not having kids that have kids like the fruitful and multiply, um, the sense that, that uh, It's worthy, it's, it's worthy to invest your life in primarily things that multiply way beyond your life.
[00:08:28] Um, that idea seems like it's, it's on a hard times everywhere within. So if you're not interested in the stuff that I talk about in this workshop or whatever, but I think it's important, I think it's
[00:08:42] Brent Kruithof: very important to understand all the different types of things that I'm talking about because you can think of it as a byword to this, uh, Did you, did you know you were going to be talking about all these different We're so glad you're here.
[00:09:00] Now you can just ride the bench. Well, you know, the A team kind of goes out there and, and, and does what they need to do to win the game versus like a discipleship strategy, which is like, Hey, you're, you're on the team. And now. Not only that, but, you know, you can get out on the field and block and tackle and do the things to help us advance, uh, uh, you know, win the game.
[00:09:17] And, um, you know, I think that so often when I think of those additions, strategies, it's like, hey, we want to see people come to see Jesus. But then, you know, once you're, once you've become a believer, there's not really much of a call to get out there and also go and make disciples. Um, it's kind of like inviting people on to, you know, into the church as their only responsibility versus actually getting, getting their hands, you know, dirty and discipling others and playing an active role in it.
[00:09:44] So it's kind of the main thing that I was thinking of is, is your. Yeah,
[00:09:49] Jeremy Pryor: the idea that multiplication is dependent on everyone playing, which is both like a bug and a feature, you know, it's a, it's a feature in that like, wow, we all get to contribute. But it's a bug in that, like, a lot of people don't want to contribute.
[00:10:06] They would love to use their money and, as a proxy for contributing, and then sort of sit on the sidelines while other people, um, contribute. And even in an analogy that I was using, where the Disciplemaker gets to 5 billion, the reason why nobody ever gets to 5 billion isn't because of multiplication or the math is wrong.
[00:10:23] It's because when that person makes two disciples and then expects those two guys to make two disciples each of them Now we're getting four and those four to make two every year and that's eight eventually Uh people start dropping out, you know, they say i'd rather sit on the sidelines I don't want to play the game.
[00:10:40] And then of course if you create a culture like christianity wide of passivity Sitting on the sidelines then you're kind of at where we're at today You're at in addition land and uh, by the way addition land Doesn't stay addition for long. It often becomes subtraction very quickly, um, or division, but Joe, what are your thoughts?
[00:11:01] Joe Freudenberg: Man? Yeah. Well, I think the, the, to continue the sports analogy, the, the picture that came to my head was, uh, Mike Krzyzewski Duke basketball coach, like the, the culture of a team. Um, like if you, I just saw he he's created something that has lasted for decades and one of his former players took over for him.
[00:11:23] His name is john Shire. Um, and is continuing something like he lived through the program, was an assistant coach under coach K forever. Um, and totally. Totally took on the DNA of like, we are not, we're not after like a championship this year. Uh, we're, we're trying to build something that's going to last like a true dynasty.
[00:11:43] Like I think that word dynasty is a very captivating for, for people. And I think that that has, there's, there's something that, uh, rings true about that. And, and kingdom life as well. Uh, like I want to be part of a dynasty. Like there's, uh, there's something about joining, joining a team. That you know, that maybe the max that you'll be there is four years, but like you're contributing to something enormous, that's going to last, that's going to have, you know, really long impact.
[00:12:10] Um, and so that that's, there's something about like letting your heart, uh, be captivated by being part of a dynasty when you're thinking about multiplication. And, you know, I'm sure we could have endless interviews with, with ex players of Coach K that are leading their own high school teams, or, you know, coaching They're kids fifth grade team or something that are having massive impacts because, you know, we talk about this seed in the fruit.
[00:12:35] Same thing with, uh, coach Popovich, the Spurs, like guys, especially I'm noticing this as NBA players get older, they want to go to those coaches. Um, especially at the end of their career, because I think there's something in them that says, this is going to like my career, like playing career, my end, but like, I'm going to be, I want to be part of something that's going to continue, um, further and further into the future.
[00:13:00] So that's where my mind went to that. So that captivation alone is, is pretty exciting.
[00:13:05] Jeremy Pryor: It's cool because yeah, we're not just invited to play the game, but we aren't invited to all, basically build a dynasty, you know, not for our glory, but for God's glory. We're going to look at, you know, more of the reasons why, but yeah.
[00:13:16] And there's a few guys in Cincinnati, um, guys like Matt Massey and Rick sheer, who you, you kind of like constantly are bumping into their downstream because they're so good at this. Like they make disciples and make disciples and like, it, it really affects. I mean, our city oftentimes, when I think about the people who really contribute, like really build ministries, really, give their lives for the kingdom.
[00:13:39] Oftentimes I'll find that they are, they are in, in a particular dynasty, like they're in somebody's disciple making, you know, downline, uh, so to speak. And they've been impacted deeply, um, by that DNA, um, in the same way that, you know, you can see that with, with, with a multi generational family dynasty.
[00:13:58] Awesome. Well, let's grab two more. Of the reasons and, uh, kinda tease those ones out as well.
[00:14:03] Number four, disciple making is an essential part of how people are saved. One of the things that's really challenging is that we've decided to use in English, this one word saved and oftentimes. We assign it only to the process of somebody coming into the kingdom for the first time. But Paul was much more nuanced about the way he used the word saved.
[00:14:23] He had, he had a bunch of different words he used to describe the different, different elements of salvation. So that kind of salvation coming, going from death to life, You know, Paul called justification, the process of becoming somebody who is prepared for the kingdom of God, a son or daughter of the kingdom, he called sanctification, and then entering into the fullness of what that means with our new heavenly bodies into the new Jerusalem, into the kingdom of God.
[00:14:47] Ultimately, he called glorification. And all of that was the process of salvation. That's why sometimes he would talk about, you are being saved, which is a verb or a way of using the word saved. Oftentimes that we're a little uncomfortable with, because again, we'd like to assign the idea of salvation to just that first step in the process.
[00:15:05] But this kind of thinking really has caused a lot of problems with The understanding that our mission is to make disciples. We will then begin to default to, well, I guess the mission is just to get people saved. If the mission is to get people saved, then the mission is to make disciples. Again, salvation.
[00:15:19] really encompasses all of the process. It doesn't just encompass justification. It also involves sanctification. And so if you want to see somebody get victory over sin and become increasingly more and more a son or daughter of the kingdom, then you need to invest in disciple making. And that is a part of what they are inheriting by, by entering into and receiving their salvation.
[00:15:40] And so we're robbing from people the fruit of salvation, a lot of its elements, when we just focus on the first step of salvation and not, and we don't think about the whole thing. So oftentimes this, I've seen this, the analogy is it's sort of like giving birth to a baby and then walking away and not actually raising the child.
[00:15:58] Um, if we saw that happening in modern days, we would be very concerned with that kind of thinking, that kind of behavior on the part of parents, but it's really important that we embrace the whole process of disciple making and not just stick with having babies. Okay, number three, Jesus commanded it.
[00:16:17] This is so important that in the bedrock of the way that we think about how we live out our lives as Christians and as disciples, we're thinking about obeying Jesus. And he commanded us in Matthew 28 to go and make disciples. And so when we say a very basic thing like Jesus is Lord, we're saying, we're going to obey you, Jesus, no matter what our lives now belong to you.
[00:16:38] Um, and so, but this is very confusing when we make those confessions and we don't Follow through on the basic things that Jesus tells us to do. Jesus said in Luke 6, 46, he turned to his disciples at one point and he says, Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and don't do what I say? Yeah, in John 14, right before he went to the cross, he, he looked at his disciples and he said, If you love me, you will obey my commandments.
[00:17:02] And so it's really important that part of the why, the foundation for why we make disciples, Isn't just the strategy. It's a great strategy. Um, or isn't just the effect on others But sometimes we just need to trust in our lord and trust in the process of saying we want to obey jesus We want to love jesus for what he's done for us in the gospel through our obedience And so he's told us to go make disciples and regardless sometimes of whether or not I feel like it or whether or not I believe in it today with the same passion I did yesterday or my tomorrow i'm going to follow jesus That's what i've decided to do when I made the confession that he's lord All right, Joe, we'll start with you this time.
[00:17:38] So the two more reasons that we're hitting here, um, this is a part of the whole process of salvation, and, um, this is a commandment of Jesus that we're actually told to do this and we're, one of the things that Christianity emphasizes that's not super popular today is this concept of obedience. So, yeah, I'm curious.
[00:17:59] Yeah. What did that start for you?
[00:18:01] Joe Freudenberg: Yeah. I'm going to hit the command. Jesus commanded us to make disciples. But that's, that's so. close to my heart these days. So I think there's a lot of very clear things that Jesus tells us to do. That's like, okay, you either do it or you don't. Um, but then there's also like, I think, especially with, Our our unique western culture.
[00:18:21] I think there's a lot of areas in our life where it's like how How do I obey jesus again? Like how am I supposed to do this with all my responsibilities with all this crazy? You know this crazy modern technological age we live in like how do I do that? Um, and I think one thing that's been very exciting to me going through this course in particular has been okay once I have Once I answer the howl problem of making disciples, if I have a blueprint, if I have a way to do it, then I can say like the, the mystification of obeying Jesus and, you know, arguably the, you know, this is the great commandment, the great commission, um, like.
[00:18:58] Like, once I know how to do that, then I actually get really excited to, to obey Jesus, knowing that I am actually, like, it's not confusing anymore. Um, so I think, and then, and then that, what that does to my connection with the Lord is it, it's, it's certainly strengthened by saying, all right, I actually feel a clear direction on how to obey you, Lord.
[00:19:20] Um, so that, that gets me pretty, pretty stoked, honestly.
[00:19:24] Jeremy Pryor: Yeah, it is. It's great to know what is obedience. And, you know, I think that one of the things that we've really tried to, you know, describe for our community is to say we need to have a definition for what obedience to this commission really looks like.
[00:19:39] And so we actually decided that, you know, And you know, because we are leading a church, let's go ahead and as a church decide what that bar is. And we just said everyone either being discipled or making disciples every year. So every year we ask that way we can answer the question, I am obeying, because I think one of the things that's confusing for people that have been confusing for me is if I talk to somebody and say, um, when's the last time you've made a disciple?
[00:20:05] And they're like, uh, I don't think I've ever made a disciple. Have you ever been a disciple? I don't think I've ever been a disciple. How long have you been a Christian? 10, 20 years. At what point do they become disobedient? To the command, right? To make disciples. Um, I would say that there is disobedience there.
[00:20:21] And maybe because like you said, Joe, they don't even know how. No one ever has shown them. There could be good reason and there could be a lot of people contributing to that. decision and that problem. But, um, but I think we don't, we're not often very comfortable talking about it in these terms exactly.
[00:20:38] And so I think, I think we do need to bring this back and say, okay, let's just describe like, Jesus could not have been clear about this. All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples. It's like the clearest command in scripture and have somebody be a believer for 10, 20, 30 years that have never participated in obeying that command, That's strange.
[00:20:57] Um, there's something kind of systemically wrong with the way we're doing our faith at that point. So Brent, what does this start for you?
[00:21:04] Brent Kruithof: Yeah. As it relates to obedience, I think, um, I think the other thing too about obeying is like, you know, it, um, I've tried to kind of wrestle through like, how am I spiritually fed?
[00:21:14] That's kind of Christian lingo for like growing in our relationship with God. And at one point I read this in John chapter four, Jesus's. Not eating in a while. His disciples are getting him to eat. And he says, My food comes from doing the will of God who sent me in for finishing His work. And he's like, My food, I'm spiritually fed by doing what God's called me to do in finishing His work.
[00:21:32] And it was like this moment where I realized that like, prayer is great, Bible reading is great, but like what really is when I actually like put it into action and go out and obey. Those are the times when I'm feeling closest to God. Um, James one 22 has been a verse that, that I love, uh, and I'm challenged by, which is, uh, don't just listen to God's word.
[00:21:50] You have to do what it says. Otherwise you're just fooling yourself. And I feel like, um, this, this call to obedience is called to make disciples is something that, um, we oftentimes either, Feel comfortable ignoring or feel comfortable saying I'm ill equipped to do this. I'm too busy or sometimes even in the church It's like well, I do make my disciples and that's that's my kids, you know, which is of course that's important That's great.
[00:22:13] But like there is this call to do more than you know, just have it end with our kids and then as it relates to the other point about it being essential part of salvation You know, I, I, I think, I think of it like apprenticeship and, um, I was just, uh, we just got back from New Year's vacation. We were in South Carolina with my sister and she was talking about her, her 17 year old daughter just really wants to be a hairstylist loves.
[00:22:39] She knows what she wants to do. She wants to. And she's talking about this different, this school, the beauty school in town that, you know, she would go and sit and listen to some courses and, um, read some books about it. And like, she's like, I just, she just wants to get her hands on hair and actually practice it.
[00:22:56] And, um, and so I feel like that's what discipleship is like, you know, that's that working out that salvation of just, um, getting into practical life on life. What does discipleship look like? This is, this is, yeah. Like, like it says an essential part of the, uh, of the salvation process is that, that apprenticeship model.
[00:23:16] Jeremy Pryor: Yeah. It's really important. Like I often, I really liked the analogy of, of just, okay, you've got this brand new baby. And they've just come into the kingdom. They're spiritually an infant and nobody is teaching them. Nobody's training them. No one is providing for them. No one's giving them that milk that the new Testament talks about.
[00:23:36] Um, and to me, the only reason why that is so predictably happens today is because we have decided to redefine salvation as well, but they're okay. They, they might be starving on the doorstep of the church for a lack of nutrients, but they're saved at least. Right? That's the reason why I want to tease that out because I don't think that the New Testament would say, say it that way.
[00:23:59] Yes, they're justified. Okay. But, but, but you, you need to guide them out of, of the, of all of the sin. You need to train them up so that they can be fully mature. You need to keep training them until they can train others and be obedient to the command. So, um, I think that we need to be sensitive to the full mission of salvation.
[00:24:20] And when we you. are obsessed about salvation alone, and then we assign it to justification and not sanctification, uh, or the other steps, then I think that this problem becomes predictable. All right, we'll look at the last two reasons here.
[00:24:34] Two, disciple making expands the kingdom. So we live in a part of the story in which the kingdom of God is expanding with power. And Jesus came announcing, And what does that practically look like? What does it mean for the boundaries of the kingdom to expand? What does it mean for, for where Jesus reigns to, to reach more places?
[00:24:57] And, and to expand more inside of people? And what that means is it's really, invest it in this whole idea of disciple making. When Jesus taught us how to pray the first request, intercessory request we make of the Father, you know is Your kingdom come, your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. How does his kingdom come?
[00:25:16] His kingdom comes through His will being done through ASSCPCC. On Earth as it is in Heaven. How does that happen? Go make disciples. That's how it happens. When people begin to be trained in the process of obeying Jesus, His kingdom expands. His kingdom expands in their home, in their heart, in their family, in their workplace, everywhere.
[00:25:35] That is how the kingdom expands in this part of the story. This is our basic assignment in where we live. And so it's really important to understand that if you care about seeking first the kingdom of God, then you need to make disciples. There is not a better way for us to activate the Um, and then the number one reason, uh, for making disciples, I like to just phrase as Jesus is worthy of the obedience of the nations.
[00:26:01] There is no better person for the nations to follow than Jesus himself. Every is in desperate need in their lives and whatever they're endeavoring into, they need to obey Jesus. And he alone is worthy of their obedience because of who he is. And this, uh, this prophecy was, was really prophesied about the Messiah.
[00:26:26] All the way back in Genesis 49. So, Jacob was blessing his 12 sons and prophesying over them in Genesis 49. And when he got to Judah, he said something really interesting. He said the scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs. And to him belongs the kingdom.
[00:26:46] The obedience of the nations that there's going to be this ruling that's going to expand over time and this belongs to him So it's one thing to say that it's great for us to see the kingdom of God expand It's another thing to say that he he alone is worthy of the obedience of the nations So part of this is just being jealous for your king to the fact that people are disobeying him People are rebelling against him.
[00:27:10] We're living in a place of active rebellion. If you were in a family and you had an incredibly loving father that you just, you said, man, he's worthy of our obedience. And you had a sibling who refused to obey the father and wanted nothing to do with them and just constantly. Rebelled and constantly was trying to overthrow the father you would say look like whatever you might have some good ideas But but he's worthy of our obedience He's the father and he's a loving father and and so we need to have that kind of relationship with Jesus like that We get jealous for his kingdom and his rulership over the nations because he's worthy of the obedience of the nations
[00:27:46] I mean both of these are are really Through the lens of kingdom That we are a part of a kingdom that's expanding, and that it's our job to expand the rule of Jesus. He delegated that to us, and that, that rule is expanded through training people to obey him, and by being his disciples, by following him.
[00:28:08] The word disciple can mean learner, follower, but the more you multiply those who are both, following and learning about Jesus and those who are training more followers and learners, uh, more apprentices, then you are actively participating in the expansion of the kingdom. Like Brent, you were saying, you know, this, this is the actual, the, the work that feeds us.
[00:28:30] And man, I, um, I think, I think we need to be kind of zealous and jealous, you know, about this, this particular topic, you know, there, there is a, um, There's kind of in, in the history of the last couple hundred years, there's a, there's movements that have been called a nationalism that are some of the most powerful, um, movements of, of all history where people suddenly get up and they get kind of jealous and zealous for their ethnicity, their nation, and they can wreak havoc on the earth when that spirit takes over a people.
[00:29:04] Um, it's one of the most powerful spirits that exist the idea that like we, we have something that is really special. Um, what's really interesting is Jesus turns that on its head. He uses that spirit, but then he uses it instead of conquering people against their will. He, he then tries to bring them into his kingdom and send it sends out his emissaries, his ambassadors with that spirit of like zealousness and desire for everyone to be a part of the same kingdom.
[00:29:35] Um, the goodness of this kingdom we, we, we, we have in ourselves instead of saying, okay, we were better than everyone else. It's like, no, what we have is for everyone else. It's an interesting reversal of that spirit. Um, but it's still a world conquering mandate. It's still saying that, that there is one King, one, one King worthy of, of rulership, one King rule worthy of obedience.
[00:29:59] And this idea that you just show up to church on Sunday, you hear a sermon, you sing some songs, you go home. There's nothing militaristic about it. There's, there's, there's a sense in which it's just so, um, it's so passive and it's, it's fundamentally not what Jesus came to do. He didn't come to start a religion.
[00:30:17] He came to take over the world, but because he is taking over the world in this very unusual way, uh, through really voluntarily, um, bringing people into his kingdom, because they choose to surrender to his rulership. Um, that, that has caused a lot of Christians to become confused about the nature of, of the faith we're a part of, um, that, that we don't understand that it is about.
[00:30:42] Discipling the nations and not just about um, you know practicing a personal and private faith And so this confusion I think is has really uh caused a lot of a lot of issues So yeah, joe, what does that turn up for you?
[00:30:56] Joe Freudenberg: Oh, man That's so good um, well Sports are on my mind today. Apparently. Um, I just saw Boise state just lost in the college football playoff and as part of the You The, uh, post game press conference, uh, one of their, let's see.
[00:31:16] I can't tell what position he played, but, um, like his main thing, they, they just lost. And he like one, one of the main things that he wanted to talk about was how great Jesus was. And it wasn't kind of your typical, um, you know, like, yeah, I love you, God, man, upstairs type of thing. It was, it was like, he turned to his coach who was in the room in the back of the room and he said, thank you, coach D for changing my life by telling me about Jesus this year.
[00:31:41] Like, that's what he wanted to talk about at the end of the season. That's awesome. And so, Coach D is, is the man. Like, that's Wow. And that's kinda what I like about what you just said, Jeremy, is like, it's, it's, uh, this kingdom is for everyone. This isn't us trying to, uh, necessarily bring, bring opposition just for the sake of opposition.
[00:31:59] But it's like, we, like, we're inviting you to, I think it's, like, this guy's happy to obey. Like, when we say Jesus is Worthy of the obedience of the nation. It's like, at first glance, it's like, Oh man, this guy's like, like this God seems to just want to people to follow his rules or, you know, assert his authority over them or something.
[00:32:22] Um, but it's, it's such, it's the opposite. Um, it's true, but it's also the opposite. It's so, so welcoming. Like this guy was almost in tears at this press conference and like coach D like invited him into something that. Um, was truly, truly life changing to the point that this guy wants to, like a D1 college football playoff.
[00:32:45] Uh, you know, he's playing in the, in the game and the tournament. And he's like, that's not even what I want to talk about. Uh, I think it's, it's pretty amazing.
[00:32:54] Jeremy Pryor: That is awesome. Yeah. I love that. Brent, what did that start for you?
[00:32:58] Brent Kruithof: Yeah, uh, you know, I think it's, it's really a lordship issue, you know, it really, the, the idea of, um, you know, Jesus is worthy, and this is, we are agents that can bring his kingdom, it's like, this is, where you're, it's a question that you continue to ask yourself, and it's really, You know, a convicting question of, of constantly saying, like, how much is Jesus Lord over my life?
[00:33:19] How much am I, um, working as an agent to advance the kingdom? How much am I being obedient to this call? And do I truly believe that Jesus is worthy? Because, you know, with, uh, you know, with kids and with, uh, jobs and, and things to manage, like, it can get so easy to get distracted and be like, Discipleship is for the, the church.
[00:33:40] That's for Sunday mornings. That's the pastor's job. Um, but when we really look at what Jesus presents and what, what scripture says, um, it is something that is, uh, it's a responsibility and a privilege for us to be able to do. And, uh, but it does take, it does take sacrifice. It does take action. And in order to really truly believe that it's worth The payoff or worth the sacrifices, we have to have that Lordship, you know, issue figured out.
[00:34:09] We have to know Jesus is Lord of our lives and what he calls us to do. We're gonna, um, we're gonna be obedient to. And, uh, so yeah, I think that is something that, um, is a question that, that, that you continually have to ask yourself and, and, you know, at times you feel that conviction of like, okay, these are areas where maybe I am, um, not surrendering.
[00:34:27] Um, you know, my, my efforts or my, my time or my comfort to, um, to advance the kingdom the way that I should. But just as you were talking about that and just summing it up with that, that final point of Jesus being worthy of the obedience of the nations, I'm just, you know, struck again by like, how deeply do I believe that?
[00:34:46] Yeah,
[00:34:49] Jeremy Pryor: we, we have a, it's really important to just, we have a governance problem, right? When it says in Isaiah 9 that the government will be upon his shoulders and his name will be called a wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting father, prince of peace. Now the increase of his rule and reign, there will be no end.
[00:35:07] Like that's, that is something that we need to, that needs to put steel in our spine. That needs to get us like up in the morning. Like, There's something exciting about that. And this is why I really want to contrast the idea of being a part of disciple making movement from practicing a religion. Um, I think that there are elements to of course, like think things we do repeatedly, rhythms and traditions that we get to participate in as believers, but to really not understand that, that we are a part of a movement that is supposed to take over the world.
[00:35:37] Um, and that is exciting and that will bless everywhere it goes and that everywhere you see suffering and you see just a lack of love and kindness and ugliness, it's because Jesus is not ruling. And you're like, well, what can I do about that? Go and make disciples who make disciples. Like that's what you can do.
[00:35:54] If we all would do this, then man, I think we could make a big change to the world. Um, and so the idea I think that's deeply inside of every person is, I think I have The seed of something within me that could change the world. And I think that seed that every one of us does have is number one, do you believe that Jesus is Lord and will you fully follow him?
[00:36:16] And then number two, if he's Lord, he's also a King. Can you give that Kingship away? Can you spread that his kingdom? Um, and that does change the world. Right? Um, and so if enough of us get this mission and get excited about it and do it skillfully, then we want to see that kind of change really take over.
[00:36:34] And again, the thing that is so critical is Jesus himself is worthy. He died. Um, and rose again, and that is what makes him ultimately worthy to, to rule. He laid down his life. That's how much he loves the world, for God so loved the world. That's the thing that, that causes Jesus to be so worthy. That's what we read about in the, in the book of Revelation.
[00:37:00] That, that he, as the lamb who was slain is worthy. Um, and so we, we want to like worship him for that. We want to sense that, but it's important to understand that, that they sort of, it can't just end there. It can't just, it can't just begin and end with like worship and singing songs about it. It's got to also propel us to action.
[00:37:21] And this is the action I think that is required. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for jumping on here today. Um, if you guys are interested in learning more about like how to do this, like this, this is what we love to do. At 1KH, um, you can go to 1KH. org, um, and sign up for Life on Life Discipleship.
[00:37:38] This video you guys, uh, heard, uh, is on that. It's in the first module, uh, but there's multiple modules and we jump on coaching calls every week and help activate you fully so that you can make disciples, but not just make disciples, but make disciple makers. Um, you need a blueprint to figure out how to do this.
[00:37:55] Um, we've really lost. Um, a, a real clear understanding of how to, how to apprentice people, um, in our culture. That's just not an educational method that we're familiar with. So we want to help you guys figure that out. So, uh, jump over there if you're interested. And thank you guys so much for listening. Um, thank you guys, uh, Joe and Brent for jumping on here today.
